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Revelation 3:9 - The Synagogue of Satan

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Twilight View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twilight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 3:54pm
But the point is this Tammy.
 
Until the church "officially adopts" a pro abortion position, they have not become Babylon.
 
Until the church "changes" a doctrinal position, they have not become Babylon.
 
 
So the arguments you present do seem to me a confusion between Laodicea and Babylon.
 
The Church is full of wheat and tares, that is the Laodicean condition.
 
That has never been (biblically), a reason to label the church Babylon.
 
 
I think many of those that want to call the Church Babylon have indeed confused the two...
 
They keep pointing to Laodicean conditions and calling it Babylon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twilight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 3:57pm
The actions of the leaders do not make the church Babylon UNTIL they change the official church doctrines.
 
Once that happens, they have become Babylon...
 
In fact your argument is totally illogical.
 
 
Because if I take it to the extreme, I only need ONE President of the Conference, in the whole of the history of the SDA Church, to go against the Church doctrines, without officially changing them, to label it Babylon...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TLR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 4:07pm
Where Mark, does anything "official" say they are "pro-life"? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TLR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 4:10pm
bullet Abortion: The Seventh-day Adventist church takes a position between the strict pro-life and strict pro-choice alternatives. A set of "Guidelines on Abortion" was approved by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee on 1992-OCT-12. It says in part:

"The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships."  http://www.religioustolerance.org/sda2.htm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TLR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 4:18pm

I don't know who these people are who posted the following....they are very against Adventists, and I think they consider them a cult.  I don't want to give their link, because I am not in any way suggesting that....  But, I do want you to see how the other churches view Adventists:

 
Quote

8. Adventists are Ambiguous about Abortions

When the SDA Church started out, Adventists were staunchly pro-life. The Whites, J.N. Andrews, Dr. Kellogg, and other SDA pioneers all denounced abortion in the strongest words. The SDA Church did not even permit abortions until 1970.

Everything changed in 1970 when an SDA hospital in Hawaii (Castle Memorial Hospital) began permitting abortions reportedly BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID OF LOSING PATIENTS WHO WOULD GO TO OTHER HOSPITALS TO GET ABORTIONS!

In the early 1970s the SDA Church developed two pairs of "guidelines" about abortion. One contained strict guidelines, and was for the PUBLIC to see. The other was much more liberal, and it was released privately to the hospitals. The PRIVATE version allowed physicians to perform ANY type of abortion-on-demand. Again, as noted earlier, we find the SDA Church engaging in deceptive practices.

It is not easy to obtain figures on who is performing abortions, but there is some evidence to indcate Adventists are one of the largest performers of abortions in the USA (that includes both official SDA institutions and those operated independantly by Seventh-day Adventist individuals.) Here are some facts:

  1. Dr. Irving "Bud" Feldkamp III, member of the Azure Hills Seventh-day Adventist Church in Grand Terrace, California, is the owner of Family Planning Associates of California, which is the LARGEST ABORTION PROVIDER in the state of California.12

  2. Dr. Richard Fredericks says, "In Adventist Hospitals where abortions are performed the overwhelming percentage are elective..."13

  3. In 2005, George Reid, of the SDA Biblical Research Institute, reported to Teresa Beem that the SDA Church was "pro-choice" and Washington Adventist Hospital was becoming an "Abortion Mill".14 The Washington Times reported the SDA hospital performed 1,494 abortions between 1975 and 1982.

  4. There are reports of SDA teen-agers attending SDA Academies getting pregnant, and being taken quietly to SDA hospitals for abortions. I have seen reports of this from more than one source, but this is a very private matter and it is difficult to get exact figures.
While giving lip service to respecting life, the SDA Corporate leadership continues to permit abortions in its institutions and by its physicians. The SDA Church insists their followers abstain from eating pork, having a glass of wine, or engaging in "secret vice" because the "body is a temple of the Holy Spirt....therefore honor God with your body" (1 Cor. 6:19), yet they seemingly have no qualms whatsoever about allowing a murder to take place within that same temple, even going so far as to employ SDA physicians working at SDA institutions "of healing" to perform those temple killings! For a people so focused on the Ten Commandments, it is ironic to find them allowing their institutions and members to break the sixth commandment: "Thou shalt not kill".  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twilight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 4:25pm

That last quotation again focuses on the faults of some, "lipservice" is the term used.

I agree with the stated church position Tammy, it seems correct to me.
 
Do you disagree with the stated church position?
 
If so, why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twilight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 4:27pm
The issue for me on abortion is that there are some in the church that are not following the church position.
 
That needs to be dealt with.

If however you disagree with the Church position, if you think it is not biblical, then you should not be a member.
 
But that does not instantly make you the judge of "everything babylonian", unless you can show from scripture it is in fact wrong. :-)


Edited by Twilight - 11 Apr 2011 at 4:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertParker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 2:15am
Originally posted by thenarrowway thenarrowway wrote:

 

. . . and so if I came there, and posted what I believe to be truth, it would be stressful for both of us.  I don't want to do that.

Robert, it is a pretty strong statement to say my ideas are becoming more Catholic than SDA....would you please give me some examples of why you would say such a thing?

Thank you for your gracious reply Tammy. You are right. It would only be a matter of time before you attacked our Church if you were a member of Be Ye Ready! and  we would not allow that. We will post articles as to why the SDA is not Babylon, but we will not have people pushing the view that it is. 

Why do I say that you are becoming more Catholic? For the very reason that your sentiments are more for the RC Church than the SDA Church. You do not see that the RC position on abortion is a blind to get people to think that their Church is of God and ours is of Satan.

Thank you again for allowing me to have my say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 5:54am
RCC kills newborns....8 days old.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TLR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 10:28am
Originally posted by RobertParker RobertParker wrote:

Originally posted by thenarrowway thenarrowway wrote:

 

. . . and so if I came there, and posted what I believe to be truth, it would be stressful for both of us.  I don't want to do that.

Robert, it is a pretty strong statement to say my ideas are becoming more Catholic than SDA....would you please give me some examples of why you would say such a thing?

Thank you for your gracious reply Tammy. You are right. It would only be a matter of time before you attacked our Church if you were a member of Be Ye Ready! and  we would not allow that. We will post articles as to why the SDA is not Babylon, but we will not have people pushing the view that it is. 

Why do I say that you are becoming more Catholic? For the very reason that your sentiments are more for the RC Church than the SDA Church. You do not see that the RC position on abortion is a blind to get people to think that their Church is of God and ours is of Satan.

Thank you again for allowing me to have my say.
You are welcome, Robert.  It is too bad though, if I came to your forum, you would not allow me to post my beliefs and thoughts, as I allow you to post yours.  I know it would take no time at all, and you would ban me.  We have been discussing this church issue here for a LONG, LONG time on this forum, and I've allowed you to post anything you care to post...never threatening even to ban you.  Yet, you readily admit, you would not allow me to post my beliefs on your forum.  I think your actions are far more Catholic than mine.  It is the Catholic Church that doesn't allow people to think differently and to interpret Scripture for themselves....not the Adventist church.  I am, and always will be a true Seventh Day Adventist at heart....and all of you on this forum know that....but I will never be loyal to a church that is not first loyal to God.  I allow you to "PUSH" your view that the church is not Babylon and "to have your say", 24/7, but you would not do the same for me.  I believe I have truth on my side, and the truth can take on all the arguments anyone can put to it...I'm not afraid to discuss this subject with anyone who is sincere, and I do believe you are sincere.  But, I hope you will examine yourself, and be honest, and ask yourself if you are not far more Catholic in your treatment of me than I am of you.
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